Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by tom_cas1 » 19 Oct 2016, 18:45

davidsutter wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_WxtBP4ePs

elvis could play when he put his mind to it
he didn't do that often though
I love that performance, one of my all-time favourites. He was a pretty good guitarist but when you've got the great Scotty Moore beside you, you don't need to play a thing. 8-)
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 19 Oct 2016, 21:19

davidsutter wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_WxtBP4ePs

elvis could play when he put his mind to it
he didn't do that often though

Elvis was at his best during his 1968 Comeback Special where that footage is from! Then unfortunately we all know of the obvious beyond that.... I feel he could have evolved into a musician and written some of his own lyrics if he hadn't focused on a movie career and went into the army.

Someone who I often compare to Elvis is Rick Nelson.... I especially love his performance here! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSngzjqMF38" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of Elvis' supporting band also backed Nelson and they claimed even how superior Nelson was.....
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 25 Oct 2016, 04:42

KingLouieLouie76 wrote:
davidsutter wrote:elvis could play when he put his mind to it
he didn't do that often though
Elvis was at his best during his 1968 Comeback Special where that footage is from!
Yes, c.1968-72 is my favourite Elvis period.

I liked that Ricky Nelson footage as well (didn't think I would.... :mrgreen: ). It must have been an influence on Deep Purple 'Black Night'.
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 25 Oct 2016, 14:55

Mallard No. 22 wrote:
KingLouieLouie76 wrote:
davidsutter wrote:elvis could play when he put his mind to it
he didn't do that often though
Elvis was at his best during his 1968 Comeback Special where that footage is from!
Yes, c.1968-72 is my favourite Elvis period.

I liked that Ricky Nelson footage as well (didn't think I would.... :mrgreen: ). It must have been an influence on Deep Purple 'Black Night'.

Nothing wrong w/Ricky... or Rick as he really was hoping to be called as he got older and wanted to distance himself from his teen idol type image.... Also, that riff influenced the following song as well! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOWOdKs6KUo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 01 Nov 2016, 07:05

Hadn't heard that before, either.... :)

Neither the Ricky Nelson or Blue Magoos songs had been hits in the UK. The audience were probably unaware of the 'rip-off' when 'Black Night' was released. :mrgreen:
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 01 Nov 2016, 08:59

Mallard No. 22 wrote:Hadn't heard that before, either.... :)

Neither the Ricky Nelson or Blue Magoos songs had been hits in the UK. The audience were probably unaware of the 'rip-off' when 'Black Night' was released. :mrgreen:
I've known about Blue Magoos for years mainly because I've always been interested in what they called "nuggets" consisting of the 1960s Garage Bands that emerged onto the scene back then and received fair amount of airplay on our Classic Rock stations and VH1 back in the States.

I for kicks just read over the comments on the Blue Magoos video and someone posted this, "She's Mine" released in 1966 by the Liverpool Five....does this groove sound familiar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFYLG7hXyDY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; :lol:
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 08 Nov 2016, 05:56

Yes, classic rock artists like Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin were 'influenced' (to use a polite phrase) by other work, perhaps obscure.

They used these influences to bring new songs to a wider audience.

I suppose the argument is: where does influence stop, and plagiarism start?

And can it be compared to the use of sampling in songs from the late 80s onwards?
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by Lt Pinkerton » 08 Nov 2016, 09:26

Mallard No. 22 wrote:Yes, classic rock artists like Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin were 'influenced' (to use a polite phrase) by other work, perhaps obscure.

They used these influences to bring new songs to a wider audience.

I suppose the argument is: where does influence stop, and plagiarism start?

And can it be compared to the use of sampling in songs from the late 80s onwards?
Plagiarism starts when you don't legally acknowledge that influence, I guess. That's the difference with sampling - you actually have to make it clear that you're using part of a song which isn't your original composition. One is morally shaky, the other one isn't.

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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 09 Nov 2016, 02:23

Mallard No. 22 wrote:Yes, classic rock artists like Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin were 'influenced' (to use a polite phrase) by other work, perhaps obscure.

They used these influences to bring new songs to a wider audience.

I suppose the argument is: where does influence stop, and plagiarism start?

And can it be compared to the use of sampling in songs from the late 80s onwards?

I believe Page unfortunately with earlier Zeppelin did plagiarize quite a bit instead of borrowing or what some refer as "nicking" ideas off each other. It was more blatant w/Zeppelin because it seemed every element of a certain song was reproduced, not just some mere chord progression.
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 14 Nov 2016, 06:13

Yes, and certainly in the earlier days of sampling, clearances were not obtained.

IIRC, M/A/R/R/S, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice were examples of this on major hit records.

Although these infringements were later settled, sometimes by giving the original writer a co-credit on the new recording.
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 14 Nov 2016, 13:55

Mallard No. 22 wrote:Yes, and certainly in the earlier days of sampling, clearances were not obtained.

IIRC, M/A/R/R/S, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice were examples of this on major hit records.

Although these infringements were later settled, sometimes by giving the original writer a co-credit on the new recording.

You're indeed right.... The most hysterical are those who thought "Super Freak"and "Under Pressure" were inspired by MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice instead! :lol:

Also, there's that case in which the Rolling Stones filed suit on the Verve for "Bittersweet Symphony".

Another instance that immediately comes to mind is the "Ghostbusters" theme. Originally, they approached Huey Lewis and the News for the theme, but they turned that down. When offering Ray Parker the opportunity, he promptly copied the Huey Lewis and the News song "I Want A New Drug" that was released within a year or two prior! Oh well......
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Re: Kings of Rock-N-Roll?

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 23 Nov 2016, 07:22

In the late 80s-early 90s whole riffs/hook lines were lifted from songs that had been major hits just a few years before. In the UK, S-Express 'Theme From S-Express', Black Box 'Ride On Time' and PM Dawn 'Set Adrift On Memory Bliss' were other prime examples of this.

These were fairly obvious ones, especially for those familiar with both the USA and UK charts. 'Under Pressure' had been number one less than a decade before Vanilla Ice re-used the bass line.

The Verve 'Bittersweet Symphony' case was over a more obscure piece of music, though quite obvious when you hear it. It is taken from the version of 'The Last Time' recorded for the LP 'The Rolling Stones Songbook' by The Andrew Oldham Orchestra in 1966. I assume the said orchestra was made up of musicians paid to do particular sessions, and did not exist as a working entity in its own right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKC5cdGBY04" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't know the background to Ray Parker Jnr copying a Huey Lewis song to do the 'Ghostbusters' theme (a song which irritated me then, and probably now :x )
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