The Genesis Thread

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Miki
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by Miki » 02 Aug 2015, 11:16

mr_spenalzo wrote:Probably a predictable answer, but the run from Nursery Cryme until Wind & Wuthering is hard to beat. I do find things to like in their output before and after those records though... I'm a sucker for something like "Hold On My Heart", which, had McCartney written it, would have been held in far higher regard than it is. It's Collins' "Here, There & Everywhere".
I went through a Genesis phase in the late 80s (saw them live in Milan in '87) and collected all their records from Nursery Cryme to Invisible Touch and I'd say that the 70s were their best period musically, though not everything they did after that is crap. My favourite album is Trick of the Tail.
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Mallard No. 22
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 03 Aug 2015, 08:03

AdvertBreak wrote: It's strange how Yes got acclaimed for 90125 when that album is perhaps the best example of prog gone pop, whereas Invisible Touch and Three of a Perfect Pair are seen as late career nadirs for their "pop sound".
This is how it is seen by the serious music fans and critics. Yes were one of the artists that were seen as 'defining' rock music (by the suburban white UK audience). So if they were endorsing the latest musical trends and production techniques then this was a positive way of maintaining their position.

Both albums were moving with the times, but by 1986 music was moving into a processed globalisation. And I regard the whole 'Band Aid/Live Aid' movement as the catalyst for this (although this had honourable intentions at the time). Genesis were merely swept up in this, as was e.g. Queen, (Jefferson) Starship and Fleetwood Mac.
AdvertBreak wrote: I'm quite sure many of those artists weren't setting out to make new wave music, just music that would fit into the 80s landscape, whatever name it might have, but it isn't new wave.
Yes, I think that is what they were doing.
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by MsMagicAmerica » 04 Aug 2015, 15:23

My two favorite Genesis albums are A Trick of the Trail & Genesis.

A Trick of the Tail has some beautiful songs like Ripples (My favorite Genesis song), A Trick of the Trail, & Entangled. There isn't a song on it that I dislike. It's Phil's first album as the singer and I think it holds up to any Gabriel album.

As for the Genesis album, I grew up on that album. My Mom was a HUGE Genesis/Collin solo fan and while it is their "pop"album, it's not as cheesie pop like Invisible Touch. Home by the Sea, Mama (the Mama video used to scare the hell out of me!), Job to Do, & That's All are brilliant classics.
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Mallard No. 22
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 06 Aug 2015, 07:35

'That's All' became a default radio favourite. This maybe was one of the songs that fuelled the ambivalence towards them. :|

Yet taken on its own terms, it is one of those simple but perfect follow-up singles that are a staple of an artists career. 'Song 2' and 'Coffee & TV' spring to mind for Blur, in this respect.
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 12 Sep 2015, 07:44

Mallard No. 22 wrote:'That's All' became a default radio favourite. This maybe was one of the songs that fuelled the ambivalence towards them. :|

Yet taken on its own terms, it is one of those simple but perfect follow-up singles that are a staple of an artists career. 'Song 2' and 'Coffee & TV' spring to mind for Blur, in this respect.

But Genesis had to resort to that route or they would have broken-up much earlier....Unfortunately it seemed though Banks and Rutherford essentially became sidemen to Phil because Phil solo obviously started to outsell Genesis to a certain extent....
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by AdvertBreak » 12 Sep 2015, 23:09

Mike and the Mechanics proves that at least Mike was also very much in a similar mindset to Phil when making the "pop" Genesis albums though.

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Mallard No. 22
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 14 Sep 2015, 08:17

Yes, I agree on both points. 'Genesis' became in effect three parts (i.e. Genesis, Phil solo, Mike & The Mechanics).

Phil was probably the main man for all three, because if Mike & The Mechanics had not been associated with him, they might not have achieved such success.
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by MsMagicAmerica » 15 Sep 2015, 03:44

AdvertBreak wrote:Just been playing Abacab, again,

Under

Rated
YES! I took your advice and gave in another spin as I hadn't heard the album in quite a long time. I haven't stopped playing it for the past month. I love that i mixes new wave, pop,and classic Genesis. There isn't just one style of music. It's a nice eclectic mix. Dodo/Lurker is pure classic Genesis. Who Donnit' is a great little new wave song. Keep it in the Dark is fantastic,Man on the Corner, No Reply, and Abacab are classics for a reason.

I was so excited when going through a box of my albums that I had backed away to see Abacab in my pile! I can't wait to listen to it on vinyl.
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by AdvertBreak » 21 Sep 2015, 00:56

MsMagicAmerica wrote:
AdvertBreak wrote:Just been playing Abacab, again,

Under

Rated
YES! I took your advice and gave in another spin as I hadn't heard the album in quite a long time. I haven't stopped playing it for the past month. I love that i mixes new wave, pop,and classic Genesis. There isn't just one style of music. It's a nice eclectic mix. Dodo/Lurker is pure classic Genesis. Who Donnit' is a great little new wave song. Keep it in the Dark is fantastic,Man on the Corner, No Reply, and Abacab are classics for a reason.

I was so excited when going through a box of my albums that I had backed away to see Abacab in my pile! I can't wait to listen to it on vinyl.
Nice! I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of the ballads (they're not bad though) but the more upbeat stuff is great. Its just sad and frustrating how this album will seemingly be forever labelled mostly wrongly.

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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 26 Sep 2015, 00:34

AdvertBreak wrote:Mike and the Mechanics proves that at least Mike was also very much in a similar mindset to Phil when making the "pop" Genesis albums though.

This right here is probably one of the most profound statements ever made on this forum and I am very serious and mean this sincerely! I wonder how Tony felt about the direction that both Phil and even Mike were taking at the time.....

And I fully agree on "Abacab".....They had to change their formula during that time to be accepted by the masses, but unfortunately it did cost them their die-hard fans... but oh well..sometimes those compromises are a must for a band's survival!
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by AdvertBreak » 26 Sep 2015, 01:10

Ah sweet. I'm not really an expert on their band dynamic but I get the impression Tony was turned onto pop by Phil and Tony rather than a 2-1 veto. But indeed, he may'nt have really wanted to. I can't say I've heard his solo material besides what's on the R-Kive release.

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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 26 Sep 2015, 06:37

KingLouieLouie76 wrote:They had to change their formula during that time to be accepted by the masses, but unfortunately it did cost them their die-hard fans... but oh well..sometimes those compromises are a must for a band's survival!
They probably began to change when Peter Gabriel left. From then onwards, they began to release regular chart singles. They are probably best known for their post-prog work.
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 26 Sep 2015, 20:14

AdvertBreak wrote:Ah sweet. I'm not really an expert on their band dynamic but I get the impression Tony was turned onto pop by Phil and Tony rather than a 2-1 veto. But indeed, he may'nt have really wanted to. I can't say I've heard his solo material besides what's on the R-Kive release.

Yes....that's definitely true..... And yes...the band gradually waned off of the prog-rock sound the moment Peter left... but other bands were forced to at the advent of MTV which was a few years later...
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 01 Oct 2015, 05:46

The transition of music from prog through punk was invigorating for Genesis and many others.

Though the MTV influence started the 'globalised 80s', which was much more generic.
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Re: The Genesis Thread

Post by AdvertBreak » 02 Oct 2015, 18:39

Pink Floyd coped best with punk. They made 'Animals'.

Or at least, that's what people term their punk rejection album. It came out in January 77, only one month after the Pistols Grundy incident. The band have spoken about it being a reaction to punk though, but not necessarily a negative one. Both Pink Floyd and punk had underground origins, and the band appreciated that they shared that. Nick Mason even produced the second Damned album, Music for Pleasure.

All though as mentioned Genesis and punk were opposites, I see that they were at their most accessible to date in their first album since punk (And Then There Was Free), with the whole idea of punk being that it was accessible, and a rejection of, say, 10 minute songs about goblins. This wouldn't have been a conscious decision by Genesis obviously, just a coincidence. A similar story for Yes. Tormato has a pop sheen and no long songs.

I was writing an essay on the whole thing about what older bands did during punk/new wave called "Rock Dinosaurs" but I never finished it.

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