Gorillaz - Song Machine

Discussion about the band and related projects.

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idreamofpikas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by idreamofpikas » 20 Dec 2020, 03:26

dougharrison wrote:
19 Dec 2020, 07:17
More a question of me being out of touch with the economics of music in 2020, but unless you have a mega mega hit, do streaming numbers pay decent money? I was of the impression it was a tiny percent of a penny per stream, but I know in general content providers can receive more via YouTube the more popular they are etc.
Something like £3440.00 for every 1 million streams on Spotify (It may be more than that, their rate seems to constantly change on source, some put it a little higher but for the sake of compromise I put the most common rate quoted).

So the Now Now, which had just over 300 million streams (equivalent to 300k albums) will have made £1033843.57 on Spotify

The Humanz album has made £2077645.16 just from its album tracks (not including the many remixes or other appendages like Sleeping Powder and Garage Palace, which adds almost another 100 million streams)

Currently, the Song Machine Project is on 140 million streams on Spotify, so not yet even half a million from Spotify in revenue.

Overall, profitable when you consider that there is also Youtube, Apple, other streaming services and physical. For an artist the size of Gorillaz, music is still profitable. For a band the size of Suede, whose last two albums made a combined 18 million streams, less so.

https://chartmasters.org/spotify-stream ... View=Disco

https://www.musicgateway.com/royalties-calculator

Sources for both Spotify streams and to calculate revenue. Interestingly the Gorillaz Spotify page passed 4 billion yesterday.

There is also the advantage of new music marketing older music. And currently Gorillaz seem to be making more on their catalogue on Spotify than they are on their new music.

Just for a comparison on modern day albums. Radiohead have released one album in the Spotify age, 2016's A Moon Shaped Pool. It has so far reached 290 million streams (or the equivalent of 289k albums).



dougharrison wrote:
19 Dec 2020, 07:17
I would have thought for most legacy acts the money is in touring/festivals these days?
Dylan's just sold his publishing for up to $300 million, Stevie Nicks 80% of her publishing for 80 million. There is still a huge amount of money in streaming for larger acts. Their songwriting catalogues would not be sold for that much if there was not. But obviously there is even more money in touring for such acts.





dougharrison wrote:
19 Dec 2020, 07:17
All things considered, given the probable 18/24 months of festival circuits, clear plans for a season 2 and big numbers for the live stream, I'm sure the band plus label consider SM1 to be a big success.
Maybe not a big success. I imagine they would have hoped that at least one of the singles would have matched the success of the singles from either Humanz or the Now Now. None have. On Youtube Humility, Tranz and Saturn Barz have all had more streams in 2020 than any of the Song Machine singles. That has to be a big disappointment for Jaime (youtube seems to be his domain) and the marketing team. Maybe less so Damon, as the songs on the whole seem to be performing better on Spotify than they are on Youtube, which indicates that this is less his issue.

On the other hand, the release of monthly singles has increased their channel's visibility all year round rather than a peak for a month and for it to fade away.

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/gorillaz

https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel ... DSnW_MOmcQ

In 2018 (release of the Now Now) the channel had 695 million streams, in 2019 with no album the channel had 530 million streams and 2020 (Song Machine era) 812 million streams.

dougharrison
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by dougharrison » 20 Dec 2020, 12:43

IDOP - thank you very much for that detailed response, whilst the scale of the numbers is a bit too high for me to carry an intuitive sense of what will have done what (in terms of commercial success) for any given random future number of sales, that definitely gives me more of a ballpark and an understanding.

Got to admit I'm surprised the videos have been less successful, relative to the music, given that so many more people have more time on their hands.

EDIT: I wonder if the numbers for the live stream might seem them include something similar at the end of most campaigns now.

windymiller
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by windymiller » 21 Dec 2020, 09:50

Well I finally got my Deluxe Almanac and CD. Only had a quick flick thru book, it really is a hefty tome. But I have finally got to listen to the album. Very impressed.

John_d
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by John_d » 25 Dec 2020, 00:16

Thanks so much @idreamofpikas, i love seeing these numbers.
Is the overall success of The Now Now attributable in part to the live shows driving views and streams?
I can understand Saturn Barz being so big. I don't think its a terrific song but the video was obviously expensive and very fun and also part funded by youtube itself?
I think Humility is a fairly bland song but pretty great video. I think Tranz is a great song and quite a nice video. SM songs and videos have varied in quality but i thought Momentary Bliss, Pink Phantom & Strange Timez were strong overall. Are YouTube views in general lower? Not what i would have expected, given lock downs.
Do you post on r/gorillaz. I would love to see the veey active community there share their thoughts.
Thanks again and merry Christmas/festive season!

idreamofpikas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by idreamofpikas » 25 Dec 2020, 04:07

John_d wrote:
25 Dec 2020, 00:16
Thanks so much @idreamofpikas, i love seeing these numbers.
Is the overall success of The Now Now attributable in part to the live shows driving views and streams?
It will certainly have helped. Gorillaz having back to back tours/albums will have helped them stay relevant. However, the initial success does seem to be down to better marketing, songs or videos. Maybe all three, a combination of two or just one. It is hard to pinpoint, especially as I'm a little biased towards Damon's songs in such a conversation.

First Day Views on Youtube

Saturn Barz 3.9 million and 1.5 (there were two versions) currently at 106 and 20 million
Humility 4.3 million currently at 88 million
Andromeda 1.5 million (though no real video) currently at 61 million
Tranz 1. 9 million currently at 57 million
Sleeping Powder 1.6 million currently at 29 million
Hollywood 0.8 currently at 19 million
Desole 0.8 million currently at 15 million
Momentary Bliss 1.1 million (debut from the Song Machine era) currently at 13 million
Pacman 0.9 million currently at 13 million
Aries 1 million currently at 10 million
The Pink Phantom 0.9 million currently at 8 million.


So looking at this it appears there is a huge difference between the debut song/videos of each era. Momentary Bliss was underwhelming in comparison to Saturn Barz and Humility (in terms of audience, quality is subjective), has already been overtaken by Desole and soon will be by Pacman (and I'm guessing that in 12 months time it will be behind the Pink Phantom, Aries and possibly the Last Chord).

It also seems likely that Momentary Bliss caused excitement to go down which hurt the debut of Desole (the second single), losing 300k for its first day views.

Song Machine not being a traditional album means we can understand why Momentary Bliss was picked first, but subconsciously many listeners who don't connect with debut singles from albums sometimes don't return to give the other songs a chance. Also did not help that the video was pretty lazy in terms of animation/lore.
John_d wrote:
25 Dec 2020, 00:16
I can understand Saturn Barz being so big. I don't think its a terrific song but the video was obviously expensive and very fun and also part funded by youtube itself?
I think Humility is a fairly bland song but pretty great video.
Humility's video also seems to have been partly funded via the Beats product placement. The song debuting on Beats/Apple channel seems to pretty much confirm this. I don't know why they have not attempted something similar this era.
John_d wrote:
25 Dec 2020, 00:16
Are YouTube views in general lower? Not what i would have expected, given lock downs.
Lower first day/peak day, lower first month and, rather sadly, these songs are getting less views the month/year they are released than the singles from the Humanz and the Now Now are getting in 2020.

Now there are some positives. As I've already mentioned the channel has done brilliantly this year and that must be down to Song Machine's regular new music. Another aspect is that music videos do really well long term. On Youtube El Manana has a video with 32 million streams and Kids with Guns has an image video which only has 22 million streams. On Spotify Kids with Guns has 18 million more streams than El Manana, a pretty significant upswing. Videos are a long term investment, which means that this era may well turn out to be one of the most profitable in a decade from now.

Also songs underperforming in their first year does not mean they will not improve. We can look at the performance of On Melancholy Hill on YouTube for this

2010 ~570,000
2011 ~3,600,000
2012 ~4,900,000
2013 ~6,100,000
2014 ~7,100,000
2015 ~10,700,000
2016 ~19,600,000
2017 ~37,000,000
2018 ~33,000,000
2019 ~18,500,000
2020 ~29,000,000

No one could predict that Melancholy Hill would go on to be one of the most successful songs released in 2010 as it limped to 78 in the UK charts. Yet it has likely outperformed about 70 of the songs that finished above it in the decade since.

A strong second season of Song Machine, a relatively popular Netflix film or decent tour could see any of these songs from Season 1 grow in popularity


John_d wrote:
25 Dec 2020, 00:16
Do you post on r/gorillaz. I would love to see the veey active community there share their thoughts.
I like that community, have occasionally posted, but I'm pretty sure a topic like this would be downvoted. When Jaime/the band messed up with Rockstar over the Valley of the Pagans video a lot of its members did not like this being pointed out. Right now they just want to enjoy the album and the videos, no one really wants to hear the faults of the project or how a band they love may be losing popularity/relevancy.

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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by John_d » 25 Dec 2020, 14:12

Thanks again. fascinating stuff.
Yes i meant to mention that Humility was backed by Beats and also - I think - Casio. I had been on holiday in LA and walked along Venice Beach just 3 weeks before the video came out. I must have just missed Jamie and co. Frustrating :-) For me, its a bland song, but maybe that has actually helped it on Spotfiy!

I am surprised Desole is doing so well. I hink Momentary Bliss was great - musically and visually - but I am a 40 year old, old guy! Valley of the Pagans was a very odd one. It would have been pretty good as a lead single. There's no way any lawyer would have signed off on the use of GTA footage. It screams of creative fatigue or something happening that wasn't expected. Song Machine Live appeared to use the footage which Jamie mentioned (cant remember where) Beck had originally sent him. You would think that could have been used fairly straightforwardly in a video similar to Tranz.

OMH has become a really big song. It only got played on radio 2 in the UK in 2010, so its had to find an audience "organically" without radio play. If you watch videos of live shows, theres always a huge cheer when the video starts.

I know a lot of folk on here think Damon's mgmt arent the best. But whoever does his live booking has done amazingly to preserve Gorillaz as a headline act. And to be fair the live show tends to justify it. Though i have noted before that it should be a wee bit more innovative.

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daii
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by daii » 25 Dec 2020, 15:46

John_d wrote:
25 Dec 2020, 14:12
OMH has become a really big song. It only got played on radio 2 in the UK in 2010, so its had to find an audience "organically" without radio play. If you watch videos of live shows, theres always a huge cheer when the video starts.
I think the same thing is gonna happen with ARIES.

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TripleJay97
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by TripleJay97 » 25 Dec 2020, 15:58

rich wrote:
19 Dec 2020, 02:20
rich wrote:
19 Dec 2020, 02:20
where can I get this album 'of Dennis' of which you speak?...
:lol: :lol:
I've always said Dennis needed more exposure. Glad Damon gave him his own album to play around with.
Image

idreamofpikas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by idreamofpikas » 26 Dec 2020, 15:12

12th best album of the year according to Fantano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN562bgJRZ4

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rich
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by rich » 26 Dec 2020, 16:51

idreamofpikas wrote:
26 Dec 2020, 15:12
12th best album of the year according to Fantano.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN562bgJRZ4
'peak gorillaz' indeed 8-)
I put me trousers on, have a cup of tea, and think about leaving the house...
my gig videos https://vimeo.com/user19376405

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stephen
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by stephen » 26 Dec 2020, 17:40

those On Melancholy Hill stats are fascinating, what a strange world we live in

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Rubi
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by Rubi » 28 Jan 2021, 23:18

stephen wrote:
26 Dec 2020, 17:40
those On Melancholy Hill stats are fascinating, what a strange world we live in
Indeed.

I have to say, I'm not the biggest fan of the song myself. I find it strangely bland, and Damon's vocals uninspiring. Always considered Rhinestone Eyes a far superior track.

idreamofpikas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by idreamofpikas » 08 Feb 2021, 11:09

Rubi wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 23:18
stephen wrote:
26 Dec 2020, 17:40
those On Melancholy Hill stats are fascinating, what a strange world we live in
Indeed.

I have to say, I'm not the biggest fan of the song myself. I find it strangely bland, and Damon's vocals uninspiring. Always considered Rhinestone Eyes a far superior track.
Rhinestone Eyes was featured in a popular Tik Tok video last December and since then has blown up (relatively speaking). It's been Gorillaz' 4th most popular track on Spotify in that time with over 5 million streams. Kind of depressing that an album track is outperforming the songs from Song Machine.

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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by stephen » 08 Feb 2021, 16:14

idreamofpikas wrote:
08 Feb 2021, 11:09
Rubi wrote:
28 Jan 2021, 23:18
stephen wrote:
26 Dec 2020, 17:40
those On Melancholy Hill stats are fascinating, what a strange world we live in
Indeed.

I have to say, I'm not the biggest fan of the song myself. I find it strangely bland, and Damon's vocals uninspiring. Always considered Rhinestone Eyes a far superior track.
Rhinestone Eyes was featured in a popular Tik Tok video last December and since then has blown up (relatively speaking). It's been Gorillaz' 4th most popular track on Spotify in that time with over 5 million streams. Kind of depressing that an album track is outperforming the songs from Song Machine.
Fucking tik tok, that's something I have no intention of joining...

Who knows, Elon Musk might use Strange Timez on a rocket launch to Saturn and it'll get 70 billion views in 2 hours in 2051, and that'll be the most listened to Gorillaz track that's ever been and it will make Gorillaz 12 bitcoins and 5 dogecoins which when taking inflation into account will be the equivalent of $400 billion USD but of course there is no such thing as USD anymore because all the banks collapsed

idreamofpikas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by idreamofpikas » 09 Feb 2021, 05:44

A numbers comparison. In a previous post I highlighted of how despite the Song Machine songs not being super successful on youtube, the project itself was beneficial for their catalogue with all their songs getting a push with new releases.

I was curious about its performance on Spotify but did not really have the data to show how well the channel had performed in other years, so instead have done a comparison to Oasis and Radiohead (simply due to them being 90's bands who are still hugely popular).

At the end of 2019 Chartmaster did a rundown on the biggest channels on Spotify https://chartmasters.org/2019/12/spotif ... d-artists/
  • Gorillaz 3.027 billion
  • Radiohead 2.843 billion
  • Oasis 2.678 billion
  • Muse 3.171 billion
  • The Killers 3.212 billion
As of today each channel has increased by
  • Gorillaz 1.127 billion
  • Radiohead 947 million
  • Oasis 566 million
  • Muse 761 million
  • The Killers 984 million
(they also had an album out in 2020)

Now minus the 165 million streams for Song Machine and there is barely anything between Radiohead and Gorillaz's streams in the last 13 months on Spotify. But the increase over Oasis is pretty significant. In that time Gorillaz have also overtaken the likes of Muse and Daft Punk in terms of Spotify streaming numbers and close the gap between them and the Killers from 190 million to 50 million as of today.

The album itself has still, likely, disappointed Damon and Jaime in its performance, but the project itself and the format of monthly releases has benefitted them.
Last edited by idreamofpikas on 10 Feb 2021, 14:02, edited 2 times in total.

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