Gorillaz - Song Machine

Discussion about the band and related projects.

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Styopa
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by Styopa » 15 Feb 2021, 16:11

I'm very much in the camp that says there were was plenty more gas in the Blur tank and in hindsight it feels like a missed opportunity. Radiohead were able to stay creatively vital whilst remaining as a band for example. Suede's recent albums have also been very good.

I've liked some of Gorillaz stuff but personally it hasn't captured me in the same way those Blur albums did. It does also feel a bit like diminishing rewards with Gorillaz, especially after Plastic Beach. But Gorillaz are huge, so what do I know?

It's also important to bear in mind these are individuals with their own lives to lead. They don't exist to make Blur albums for us!

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stephen
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by stephen » 15 Feb 2021, 17:25

Styopa wrote:
15 Feb 2021, 16:11
It's also important to bear in mind these are individuals with their own lives to lead. They don't exist to make Blur albums for us!
Yup this is true. They can do what they want, they've earned it :D

I think there's a good amount of examples where bands have managed to keep going for a long time, even the shit ones like coldplay so I'm sure blur would have managed just fine. Makes you wonder what could have been, I had high hopes after Music Is My Radar that Think Tank would have become this kinda dance/funk album (in my own imaginary world)

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Mallard No. 22
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 16 Feb 2021, 20:20

Sledge Hammer wrote:
14 Feb 2021, 09:18
The 91/93/94/95/97/99 run of Blur albums is simply amazing, Gorillaz and the rest of it comes nowhere near.
I agree about the run of Blur albums, but the first two Gorillaz albums and 'Happiness In Magazines' by Graham were also very good.
"Everybody's Doing It...So Do It Too...."

idreamofpikas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by idreamofpikas » 16 Feb 2021, 22:35

Mallard No. 22 wrote:
16 Feb 2021, 20:20


I agree about the run of Blur albums, but the first two Gorillaz albums and 'Happiness In Magazines' by Graham were also very good.
I'd say the first 3 are all 5 star (Plastic Beach seems to have aged much better than the first album in the eyes of critics), as is the first the Good the Bad the Queen album.

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Mallard No. 22
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 17 Feb 2021, 08:21

Yes, I hesitate to say that there was any loss of potency, though I tend to judge it by top ten single success.
"Everybody's Doing It...So Do It Too...."

John_d
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by John_d » 17 Feb 2021, 11:20

The Magic Whip was an unexpected treat but I think it was mixed - Go Out, Lonesome Street are retro souding and unfortunately banal songs. I loved Ong Ong, My Terracotta Heart, Pyongyang, and Ghost Ship.

Overall Demon Days, Plastic Beach and the first TGTBATQ are better albums than The Magic Whip. Beyond question. So I'm pleased Damon did those albums, and not just more Blur.

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stephen
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by stephen » 17 Feb 2021, 16:54

John_d wrote:
17 Feb 2021, 11:20
The Magic Whip was an unexpected treat but I think it was mixed - Go Out, Lonesome Street are retro souding and unfortunately banal songs. I loved Ong Ong, My Terracotta Heart, Pyongyang, and Ghost Ship.

Overall Demon Days, Plastic Beach and the first TGTBATQ are better albums than The Magic Whip. Beyond question. So I'm pleased Damon did those albums, and not just more Blur.
Sorry last time I checked music was subjective

Styopa
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by Styopa » 17 Feb 2021, 17:28

stephen wrote:
17 Feb 2021, 16:54
John_d wrote:
17 Feb 2021, 11:20
The Magic Whip was an unexpected treat but I think it was mixed - Go Out, Lonesome Street are retro souding and unfortunately banal songs. I loved Ong Ong, My Terracotta Heart, Pyongyang, and Ghost Ship.

Overall Demon Days, Plastic Beach and the first TGTBATQ are better albums than The Magic Whip. Beyond question. So I'm pleased Damon did those albums, and not just more Blur.
Sorry last time I checked music was subjective
I appreciate the sentiment but I'm not sure you're right. I think there are certain established objective qualities with which to judge art.

Don't get me wrong, our enjoyment of music is certainly subjective but that doesn't mean there aren't objective standards to judge it by.

I think we know this deep down anyway. Who would seriously claim that it is a simply a matter of taste whether Cheeky Song by the Cheeky Girls is as good a work as the 9th Symphony by Beethoven?

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stephen
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by stephen » 18 Feb 2021, 07:46

Styopa wrote:
17 Feb 2021, 17:28
stephen wrote:
17 Feb 2021, 16:54
John_d wrote:
17 Feb 2021, 11:20
The Magic Whip was an unexpected treat but I think it was mixed - Go Out, Lonesome Street are retro souding and unfortunately banal songs. I loved Ong Ong, My Terracotta Heart, Pyongyang, and Ghost Ship.

Overall Demon Days, Plastic Beach and the first TGTBATQ are better albums than The Magic Whip. Beyond question. So I'm pleased Damon did those albums, and not just more Blur.
Sorry last time I checked music was subjective
I appreciate the sentiment but I'm not sure you're right. I think there are certain established objective qualities with which to judge art.

Don't get me wrong, our enjoyment of music is certainly subjective but that doesn't mean there aren't objective standards to judge it by.

I think we know this deep down anyway. Who would seriously claim that it is a simply a matter of taste whether Cheeky Song by the Cheeky Girls is as good a work as the 9th Symphony by Beethoven?
But I can just do this....

Your wrong

:)

jonathas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by jonathas » 18 Feb 2021, 11:45

I used to be a very firm believer that art could be judged objectively and that one could say with conviction that one work is better than another. I remember being in Aesthetics classes at University and making that point dogmatically to a bunch of philosophy students and mavelling at their contrary opinion. How could you not say conclusively that Jeffrey Archer's books were worse than Geoffrey Chaucher's, I cried.

I've had about 20 years to think about it since, and I think I was wrong. Art is subjective.

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rich
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by rich » 18 Feb 2021, 11:56

It's an objective truth that most things are subjective...
I put me trousers on, have a cup of tea, and think about leaving the house...
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idreamofpikas
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by idreamofpikas » 18 Feb 2021, 12:51

jonathas wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 11:45
I used to be a very firm believer that art could be judged objectively and that one could say with conviction that one work is better than another. I remember being in Aesthetics classes at University and making that point dogmatically to a bunch of philosophy students and mavelling at their contrary opinion. How could you not say conclusively that Jeffrey Archer's books were worse than Geoffrey Chaucher's, I cried.

I've had about 20 years to think about it since, and I think I was wrong. Art is subjective.
This is not a mutually exclusive take, it is not a case of one or the other. Art, in particular music, can be both judged objectively and subjectively. Charts, critical appraisal (and aggregate sites that keep track of them) as well as Spotify (an excellent resource to see the legacy of a song/album/artist) are all data points to objectively assess music.

In my experience with online discourse I have no issue when the subjective opinion is used by people on art they like. That is always an opinion I will respect and see no reason to challenge, it is when people reject objectivity to hate something and will not accept that it is just their opinion, that other people may like it. That is often when I will use objective data in such a conversation (which often turns into a debate).

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stephen
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by stephen » 18 Feb 2021, 15:02

Thanks for those explaining it better than I ever could...

It just really grinds my gears when people state that their music taste is a fact and correct

I've been on this board and the official one long enough to know that no one agrees to each other music tastes, that's the beauty of it. No need to fight just appreciate why one might like something more than the other

Styopa
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by Styopa » 18 Feb 2021, 17:42

If someone dismisses another person's opinion by saying their opinion is a fact or whatever, then of course that's just being silly.

But I strongly believe someone could put together a strong argument that, for example, Revolver is a work of greater artistic value than S Club 7'S greatest hits.

The subjective experience of the person who enjoys the S Club 7 album more than Revolver is obviously valid and shouldn't be disregarded as not being important. However that doesn't mean all art is created equal because clearly it is not. Me taking a crap on a piece of paper and calling it my masterpiece is not the same as the Mona Lisa, no matter what opinion I take of my "work".

If we really believed that there are no objective standards with which to judge things by then statements like X is one of the greatest albums ever or Y are one of the best bands ever are essentially meaningless. But I think, for instance, the Beatles really are one of the best bands ever and that Day in the Life is objectively better that the Mr Blobby Song. And I could go into great detail why that is the case and why it goes beyond mere opinion. Someone preferring cheese and onion crisps to salt and vinegar crisps is a matter of personal taste- an opinion. But the question of why A Day in the Life is better than the Mr Blobby Song goes way goes beyond that- we can appeal to universally recognised standards of aesthetics and categories under which works may be appreciated and appraised.

TristramShandy
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Re: Gorillaz - Song Machine

Post by TristramShandy » 18 Feb 2021, 22:08

Well, of course, a Dom Pérignon '46 is objectively better tasting than some infamous cider.
But to re-focus on the main question, which was about the Blur-tiny-world (band + solos + collaborations), imho, wondering "Is The Kiss Of Morning better than Demon Days?" is like comparing two bottles of a particular wine, same wine, same year.

What I mean is: I do believe there is an objective "quality" spectrum in arts as Styopa puts it, but I also believe that, as far as the Blur-galaxy is concerned, it doesn't unfold at all on this spectrum, it's a mere point. And we fans are a bit biased to admit that, because we have a comprehensive knowledge of a certain palette the four guys have produced. I think at the scale of the Blur-galaxy, you can only be subjective.

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