The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your head?

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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby Mallard No. 22 » 08 Mar 2017, 07:23

You're right, it sounds like a Nirvana pastiche. But I like the melancholy strings on it, a touch of the late 60s.

While we are talking about sounding like Nirvana, BBC 6Music did a '1994 Day' last Friday (3 March).

They played 'Inside' by Stiltskin, which became maligned as 'manufactured grunge' (it was featured on an advert etc). But taken on its own terms I quite liked it, and it still seems OK now :)
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby KingLouieLouie76 » 19 Mar 2017, 05:30

Mallard No. 22 wrote:You're right, it sounds like a Nirvana pastiche. But I like the melancholy strings on it, a touch of the late 60s.

While we are talking about sounding like Nirvana, BBC 6Music did a '1994 Day' last Friday (3 March).

They played 'Inside' by Stiltskin, which became maligned as 'manufactured grunge' (it was featured on an advert etc). But taken on its own terms I quite liked it, and it still seems OK now :)


Yeah.. it's like Nirvana meeting "Bitter Sweet Symphony" to a certain extent.... what an interesting combo! I loved how the UK embraced Nirvana and Grunge despite it seems the Britpop's anti-Grunge movement at the time (at least what I perceived it to be). That Kurt was very impressed w/Graham's guitar-work in "There's No Other Way" says a lot in itself! I remember Stitlskin somewhat, but never really got into them....


Right now, this song is stuck in my head......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxz_gNx1q8w
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby AdvertBreak » 19 Mar 2017, 17:11

Altern-8 - Evapor-8
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby Mallard No. 22 » 21 Mar 2017, 06:51

Nirvana's singles got constant airplay on daytime radio.

Guns n Roses and U2 (with Achtung Baby) were also big at the time. I would say that (in the UK) 'Nevermind' was aligned with them, though with more leaning towards the student audience.

Rave/dance had a techno-kick going on, as with Altern-8 to which AB refers.

UK indie remained lower-profile, and Nirvana filled the gap between 'baggy' and 'Britpop'.
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby KingLouieLouie76 » 23 Mar 2017, 04:27

Mallard No. 22 wrote:Nirvana's singles got constant airplay on daytime radio.

Guns n Roses and U2 (with Achtung Baby) were also big at the time. I would say that (in the UK) 'Nevermind' was aligned with them, though with more leaning towards the student audience.

Rave/dance had a techno-kick going on, as with Altern-8 to which AB refers.

UK indie remained lower-profile, and Nirvana filled the gap between 'baggy' and 'Britpop'.



Thanks for that info. I love hearing the UK's perspective on what the scene was like back then. To me, I often perceive it as very similar to how the UK was like in the mid-late 60s.....

This is currently stuck in my head at the moment......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ViwvgtvbA
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby AdvertBreak » 23 Mar 2017, 13:02

Grunge may have filled the gap between baggy and Britpop but that's more how BBC Four music docs look at things, brushing over what was happening in UK indie at the time. If you're lucky such documentaries might mention shoegaze, probably not, but they'll never mention grebo or T-shirt bands. There was once a time when Carter USM could debut at No. 1 with their latest album, headline Glastonbury, and get circlejerked to death by NME, something the magazine no doubt feel embarrassed about now. And it shows because neither them, BBC Four docs or any other mainstream media seems to have a mention for them, Pop Will Eat Itself, Jesus Jones etc.
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby AdvertBreak » 27 Mar 2017, 19:17

The Killers - When You Were Young :0
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby Mallard No. 22 » 28 Mar 2017, 06:53

AdvertBreak wrote:Grunge may have filled the gap between baggy and Britpop but that's more how BBC Four music docs look at things, brushing over what was happening in UK indie at the time.


I absolutely agree with you AB about the perspective of BBC4 music docs. It is a lazy way of looking at things. Though it does reflect how the music came across to the public at the time.

My point about grunge being 'the bridge from baggy to Britpop' is from the same perspective. My memory is that grunge (particularly Nirvana) got plentiful daytime airplay, whereas shoegaze did not. It may have got on evening Radio One (Peel, Radcliffe, Goodier etc) but less likely on Steve Wright's show.

You are right about Carter USM (& The Charlatans, Jesus Jones, The Farm) getting no. 1 albums. And I bought them all at the time. But as with indie singles, their chart life was brief overall, with peak sales in the week of release.

If you blinked, you missed them in the charts. A lot of people were not familiar with them, compared to e.g. U2, Guns n Roses or Nirvana, big international acts whose albums stayed on chart for over a year.

Jesus Jones singles did get a lot of prime airtime, especially from the 'Doubt' album. To my ears JJ had more finesse than PWEI or Carter USM, who in particular sounded rough around the edges. Like a kind of New Wave pastiche whose appeal lessened once beyond the student crowd.
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby KingLouieLouie76 » 28 Mar 2017, 21:47

Mallard No. 22, I noticed how you mentioned the likes of Jesus Jones, the Farm, and the Charlatans in your last post. Were they "hit makers" in the UK during that period? Because they were merely "one-hit wonders" here in the States. Of course, "Right Here, Right Now", "Groovy Train", were major hit here and Charlatans acquired a more so cult following here.

Did the Grunge bands in the UK only register less than four hits during that time (meaning each band) or did even their deeper cuts get some decent airplay?


Did you in the UK sense a Britpop vs Grunge rivalry?


Anyways.... right now this is stuck in my head! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SNsDNF1ljU
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby AdvertBreak » 28 Mar 2017, 22:44

Mallard No. 22 wrote:
AdvertBreak wrote:Grunge may have filled the gap between baggy and Britpop but that's more how BBC Four music docs look at things, brushing over what was happening in UK indie at the time.


I absolutely agree with you AB about the perspective of BBC4 music docs. It is a lazy way of looking at things. Though it does reflect how the music came across to the public at the time.

My point about grunge being 'the bridge from baggy to Britpop' is from the same perspective. My memory is that grunge (particularly Nirvana) got plentiful daytime airplay, whereas shoegaze did not. It may have got on evening Radio One (Peel, Radcliffe, Goodier etc) but less likely on Steve Wright's show.

You are right about Carter USM (& The Charlatans, Jesus Jones, The Farm) getting no. 1 albums. And I bought them all at the time. But as with indie singles, their chart life was brief overall, with peak sales in the week of release.

If you blinked, you missed them in the charts. A lot of people were not familiar with them, compared to e.g. U2, Guns n Roses or Nirvana, big international acts whose albums stayed on chart for over a year.

Jesus Jones singles did get a lot of prime airtime, especially from the 'Doubt' album. To my ears JJ had more finesse than PWEI or Carter USM, who in particular sounded rough around the edges. Like a kind of New Wave pastiche whose appeal lessened once beyond the student crowd.


Interesting points.
-Yeah the 90s and 00s were very faithful to fanbase hits (i.e. songs or albums debuting at #1 with peak sales due to a dedicated fanbase and then dropping off), although this later developed into it being more a case of a household name doing just that whereas in the early 90s, as with your examples, it was not so much the case.
-Steve Wright's show is kinda infamous is it not? Besides the general passive audience, he was also reluctant to play anything too abrasive or noisy. Declared LFO the worst record ever?
-PWEI and even Carter are much more respected than Jesus Jones these days (although I love JJ, a lot). PWEI for example, being more unique and mostly less serious (up until about '92 anyway) than several of their contemporaries has contributed to their longevity and reacclaim, as the more self-serious attitudes of other bands helped drown in the inevitable passing of the torch of styles. And I wouldn't call them a pastiche at all, they (and Carter) are more like perfect examples of very cult-ish bands that somehow got big. PWEI invented grebo, it's fair to say, and plotted its development from its C86 background through to its Beastie Boys-esque early days and then do their more definitive sound of 1989-90 era. The band became more serious and rockier in later times but still with the same delightful off-kilter feel that always defined them. And Carter, while ridiculed by some no less, still have a huge cult following (iirc even drawing in a record number of fans for a Radio 6 Maida Vale concert or something a few years ago). But my point was that their appeal surely didn't really lessen beyond the student crowd if they were headlining Glastonbury.
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby Mallard No. 22 » 30 Mar 2017, 07:42

KLL - 'baggy' UK hits c.1990-91:

Jesus Jones had four top 40 hits from the 'Doubt' album - my memory is that they all got decent airplay incl. daytimes. 'Right Here Right Now' actually charted twice.

The Farm had two top ten hits off Spartacus - both had decent daytime airplay.

The Charlatans had two hits off Some Friendly - 'The Only One I Know' got much airplay, 'Then' and the stand-alone single 'Over Rising' got lesser airplay but I remember them on radio and were also top 20.

Subsequent singles by these artists c.1992-93 did not get as much airplay IIRC. E.g. I don't remember the hits off Jesus Jones 'Perverse' album getting much attention, though 'The Devil You Know' went top 10 - probably in & out in its first week.

By this time, my memory is that Nirvana's singles got much airplay from late 1991 up to Kurt Cobain's death. When this occurred, 'Girls & Boys' was already in the chart and 'Supersonic' was imminent. Thus April 1994 is recognised as the time when Grunge gave way to Britpop in the UK. At the time, I don't think Britpop stood out as a 'scene', I think this was only noticeable towards the end of the year, and not established until the summer of 1995.

I don't think there was a rivalry between Grunge and Britpop as such, because in the UK one scene gave way to another. Ironically, the emergence of Blur, Oasis etc as major chart acts probably took away the market share of other indie acts like Carter USM, Inspiral Carpets and Jesus Jones as much as it halted Grunge.
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Re: The official NEW what song do you have stuck in your hea

Postby Mallard No. 22 » 30 Mar 2017, 08:04

AdvertBreak wrote:Yeah the 90s and 00s were very faithful to fanbase hits (i.e. songs or albums debuting at #1 with peak sales due to a dedicated fanbase and then dropping off), although this later developed into it being more a case of a household name doing just that whereas in the early 90s, as with your examples, it was not so much the case.

During the 90s, there were more indie acts on indie labels, albeit with distribution deals by majors. This probably enabled the top 20 indie hits, however brief their chart run was.

AdvertBreak wrote: Steve Wright's show is kinda infamous is it not? Besides the general passive audience, he was also reluctant to play anything too abrasive or noisy. Declared LFO the worst record ever?

Yes, he didn't seem keen on indie at all. IIRC he would cut the airtime short, and be scant about the act and song title - rushing their announcement, or not announcing them at all. I don't remember that about the LFO single, but I can well believe it. As a 'Smashie n Nicie' DJ who didn't like The Smiths/Morrissey, he probably found rave/indie abhorrent and baffling.


AdvertBreak wrote:PWEI and even Carter are much more respected than Jesus Jones these days (although I love JJ, a lot). PWEI for example, being more unique and mostly less serious (up until about '92 anyway) than several of their contemporaries has contributed to their longevity and re-acclaim.

My impression of PWEI was that they were a bit of a novelty (as you put it - 'less serious'). They got airplay around the time of 'X, Y and Zee' but like Carter USM I don't think they reached much beyond the indie crowd at the time. That said, I can well believe they maintain cult followings now e.g. Carter had some songs with strong subjects, regardless of their lack of finesse.
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