The Kinks Thread

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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by MrMagpie » 15 Apr 2015, 17:10

I'm listening to the original 12 track version of Village Green Preservation Society. You know the story behind it? Pye released the album after the Kinks delivered it, 12 tracks and the running order included "Days" and "Mr. Songbird."

Track listing:

The Village Green Preservation Society
Do You Remember Walter
Picture Book
Johnny Thunder
Monica
Days
Village Green
Mr. Songbird
Wicked Anabella
Starstruck
Phenomenal Cat
People Take Pictures of Each Other

Ray immediately demanded they pull it, so very few copies were sold and it's now an ultra-rare collector's item. He wanted to make it a double album but Pye refused so he expanded it to 15 songs (the version we all know) and removed "Days" and "Mr. Songbird." Every time I listen to this version it's so different from the standard one!
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 16 Apr 2015, 12:58

MrMagpie wrote:I'm listening to the original 12 track version of Village Green Preservation Society. You know the story behind it? Pye released the album after the Kinks delivered it, 12 tracks and the running order included "Days" and "Mr. Songbird."

Track listing:

The Village Green Preservation Society
Do You Remember Walter
Picture Book
Johnny Thunder
Monica
Days
Village Green
Mr. Songbird
Wicked Anabella
Starstruck
Phenomenal Cat
People Take Pictures of Each Other

Ray immediately demanded they pull it, so very few copies were sold and it's now an ultra-rare collector's item. He wanted to make it a double album but Pye refused so he expanded it to 15 songs (the version we all know) and removed "Days" and "Mr. Songbird." Every time I listen to this version it's so different from the standard one!

Oh wow...I cannot fathom "Village Green" not consisting "Last of the Steam-Powered Trains", "All of My Friends Were There" , "Sitting By the Riverside", "Animal Farm" and obviously "Big Sky"! "Days" might have worked (but certainly not in favor of what would have been the omitted five), and "Mr Songbird" is rather decent, but the same applies there.

"Starstruck" was an interesting song....I always found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8osV1ZbLJLE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; very amusing.... Apparently the last footage consisting of Pete before he departed, they all seemed to be on the best of terms here!
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by MrMagpie » 16 Apr 2015, 13:40

There's actually footage of them playing on a UK TV show in early 1969..."Last of the Steam Powered Trains" and "Picture Book" that is, as far as I am aware, the last footage of them with Pete. He had long since checked out mentally...even though he routinely said VGPS was the best album he ever worked on and his absolute favorite (and his favorite Kinks song of all time was "Animal Farm") he had wanted out since early '67 when he came back after his car wreck. Such a weird dynamic between him and the other 3.
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 17 Apr 2015, 09:03

MrMagpie wrote:There's actually footage of them playing on a UK TV show in early 1969..."Last of the Steam Powered Trains" and "Picture Book" that is, as far as I am aware, the last footage of them with Pete. He had long since checked out mentally...even though he routinely said VGPS was the best album he ever worked on and his absolute favorite (and his favorite Kinks song of all time was "Animal Farm") he had wanted out since early '67 when he came back after his car wreck. Such a weird dynamic between him and the other 3.

Oh yeah..one of my personal fave Kinks performances (despite that's all mimed)......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYtOPjPtVS0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I forgot that it was captured in '69....

As we have discussed before, it seemed John Dalton was destined to join the band for quite awhile (starting in '66 after Pete's accident)..... It's awfully complex to rate who was better.... Yes, definitely quite odd dynamics, but that obviously applies for the entire band in general. It's very difficult they managed to last as long as they did with that constant interpersonal struggles from within! "VGPS" had Pete at his best....IE on "Big Sky" which apparently was Hendrix's fave Kinks' song.....
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by He's So High » 18 Apr 2015, 17:54

Just picked up that Johnny Rogan biography you reviewed MrMagpie; quite intrigued by the controversy surrounding it. I'm quite a big Kinks fan as in I know their 'golden run' of albums in the late 60s/early 70s well, and obviously the singles of the 60s, but not much beyond that. Looking forward to finding out about different periods.

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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 19 Apr 2015, 08:19

Just bringing this discussion over to this thread from 'Mr. Magpie's Music Reviews'. It is more relevant here:
MrMagpie wrote:Certainly in the UK, yep. Not a SINGLE one of their albums after 1967's Something Else charted in the UK...let that sink in for a moment...and as for singles, other than the rare blip ("Lola" in 1970, "Come Dancing" in 1983) not a single UK single did either (although the two that did were top 10). Whereas they had a run of success in the USA in the 1960s/early 1970s and again in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Very unusual for the most British of the big 4 60s bands...they're like the anti-Blur in that regard! :lol:
Retrospectively, there is nothing wrong with 'Village Green Preservation Society'. But at the time it was considered inward or backward-looking, in the face of the revolutionary attitudes of 1968. Thus as you say, The Kinks regular run of big hits dipped after 1967, though they still had a singles chart presence until 1972. The biggest UK singles in the 1968-72 period were 'Days', Lola', 'Apeman' and 'Supersonic Rocket Ship' which were all top 20.

I like the 'Village Green' album and also the single 'Victoria' (1970) which didn't reach the top 20 at the time, but gets airplay in the UK now.

It is also interesting that by comparison The Who had a dip in their fortunes comparitively in 1968. 'The Who Sell Out' LP didn't quite reach the UK top ten, and their singles of that year just made it into the top 30. This followed the single 'I Can See For Miles', which Townshend anticipated would be their masterpiece and a big number one, but it wasn't quite viewed like this by the regular public.
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by He's So High » 19 Apr 2015, 10:18

Village Green came out on the same day as The White Album didn't it? Talk about unfortunate timing.

On a slightly different note, I saw the Kinks musical 'Sunny Afternoon' not too long ago. Given Ray's quite heavy involvement I had pretty high expectations, and I'm pleased to see they were exceeded! Obviously the songs themselves are incredible, but they used a live band to try and capture some of that raw energy. I saw it won four Olivier awards last week as well, so hopefully it might start to see the Kinks get a bit more recognition in the wider public.

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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 20 Apr 2015, 02:53

Mallard No. 22 wrote:Just bringing this discussion over to this thread from 'Mr. Magpie's Music Reviews'. It is more relevant here:
MrMagpie wrote:Certainly in the UK, yep. Not a SINGLE one of their albums after 1967's Something Else charted in the UK...let that sink in for a moment...and as for singles, other than the rare blip ("Lola" in 1970, "Come Dancing" in 1983) not a single UK single did either (although the two that did were top 10). Whereas they had a run of success in the USA in the 1960s/early 1970s and again in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Very unusual for the most British of the big 4 60s bands...they're like the anti-Blur in that regard! :lol:
Retrospectively, there is nothing wrong with 'Village Green Preservation Society'. But at the time it was considered inward or backward-looking, in the face of the revolutionary attitudes of 1968. Thus as you say, The Kinks regular run of big hits dipped after 1967, though they still had a singles chart presence until 1972. The biggest UK singles in the 1968-72 period were 'Days', Lola', 'Apeman' and 'Supersonic Rocket Ship' which were all top 20.

I like the 'Village Green' album and also the single 'Victoria' (1970) which didn't reach the top 20 at the time, but gets airplay in the UK now.

It is also interesting that by comparison The Who had a dip in their fortunes comparitively in 1968. 'The Who Sell Out' LP didn't quite reach the UK top ten, and their singles of that year just made it into the top 30. This followed the single 'I Can See For Miles', which Townshend anticipated would be their masterpiece and a big number one, but it wasn't quite viewed like this by the regular public.

Unfortunately, the Who put the hopes on "Dogs" which somewhat backfired, but they obviously certainly recovered with "Tommy".... Regarding the Kinks, you must compare the Beach Boys "Friends" which also was released in '68..... It didn't sell or chart well, but people retrospectively consider that and "VGPS" among their all-time faves. They both didn't project the turbulence of that period, but since evoke something different now.....
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by MrMagpie » 20 Apr 2015, 13:21

^part of the reason Ray was so inward looking and English-centric during that period is because, with the ban from America from 1965-69 he almost HAD to be. He's always said that he writes what he knows so it makes sense. But yes, awful timing having the misfortune to be released the same day as the White Album!
He's So High wrote:Just picked up that Johnny Rogan biography you reviewed MrMagpie; quite intrigued by the controversy surrounding it. I'm quite a big Kinks fan as in I know their 'golden run' of albums in the late 60s/early 70s well, and obviously the singles of the 60s, but not much beyond that. Looking forward to finding out about different periods.
Cool! Let us know what you think...given how crazy it has split Kinks fans (we even had to start a new Facebook group to discuss the book as it's been banned from on high by Ray and Dave on the official group where I initially broached the subject!) I am trying to hear from people on both sides. So I'm definitely interested in your take on it.
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 21 Apr 2015, 05:45

MrMagpie wrote:^part of the reason Ray was so inward looking and English-centric during that period is because, with the ban from America from 1965-69 he almost HAD to be. He's always said that he writes what he knows so it makes sense. But yes, awful timing having the misfortune to be released the same day as the White Album!

Ray was the only one to embrace the UK at the time (which obviously became the case w/Britpop nearly 25-years later)......He has truly been ahead of his time. Only the Beatles brief foray with nostalgia (Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane and to a certain extent, "Sgt. Pepper album) did the same. I guess to a lesser degree the Wh did w/"Sell Out" with the Pirate radio motif. But what is the essence is how "VGPS" is so highly regarded today..it will always stand the test of time and become further appreciated by the masses.
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by Mallard No. 22 » 22 Apr 2015, 06:28

KingLouieLouie76 wrote:
MrMagpie wrote: But that is the essence is how "VGPS" is so highly regarded today..it will always stand the test of time and become further appreciated by the masses.
Yes, it is a document of changing times.

It would have benefitted (at the time) from a big hit single being upon it. Although the trend at the time was to move away from singles, and the 'White Album' didn't have any (at least, not for The Beatles themselves).
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 23 Apr 2015, 01:11

Mallard No. 22 wrote:
KingLouieLouie76 wrote:
MrMagpie wrote: But that is the essence is how "VGPS" is so highly regarded today..it will always stand the test of time and become further appreciated by the masses.
Yes, it is a document of changing times.

It would have benefitted (at the time) from a big hit single being upon it. Although the trend at the time was to move away from singles, and the 'White Album' didn't have any (at least, not for The Beatles themselves).

Agreed....The Beatles, Kinks, the Rolling Stones, the Beach Boys, the Who..etc..the HIGHLY successful bands during that era knew to put emphasis on the entire album than just mere singles... The bands who took the opposite approach no longer have any sustainable success.. Album oriented definitely was the way to go..... That's why most bands fail today for the most part! Heck we all know the tale regarding "Revolution" and how that wasn't even deemed adequate enough to be "Hey Jude" B-side!

What song on "VGPS" would have made a hit single? "Picture Book" more than likely.....
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by AdvertBreak » 23 Apr 2015, 01:20

Agreed, because isn't Picture Book their best known album track anyway? (Or at least that's the impression I get)

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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by KingLouieLouie76 » 23 Apr 2015, 01:27

AdvertBreak wrote:Agreed, because isn't Picture Book their best known album track anyway? (Or at least that's the impression I get)

Not necessarily... but it has gained more appreciation over the years... In fact, "Picture Book" became popular here in the States a few years ago since it was featured in a HP computer ad (and several other Kinks songs have also been in recent ads)...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lde77E4PY4Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hate songs being used for commercial gain, but actually it does help attract newer fans, so I'm definitely all in favor of that!
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Re: The Kinks Thread

Post by MrMagpie » 23 Apr 2015, 16:58

AdvertBreak wrote:Agreed, because isn't Picture Book their best known album track anyway? (Or at least that's the impression I get)
Not really...in fact outside of Kinks fanatics it was unknown here in the USA until it was used in an HP Photo commercial about 10 years ago. I remember being shocked when I first heard it because it's such a deep album cut that I was probably the only person in New Hampshire who had heard the song prior to that TV ad :lol:
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